(no subject)

[essayel]

I was interested this morning to hear that the term 'British' is being used less frequently to describe themselves particularly by the English. Of course the Scots Welsh and Irish have never been that fond of the term, for obvious reasons, but for the English it was a very useful blanket term to use that avoided having to commit to a nationality that required all kinds of apologies to be made.

Depending upon the nationality of the person to whom one is speaking one might find oneself apologising for The Rough Wooing, Oliver Cromwell, Benedict Arnold, Crecy, Cecil Rhodes, being a nation of wishy-washy bleeding heart liberals, the death of William Wallace, Bomber Harris, the Opium Wars, the potato blight, the Highland clearances, 'pulling the King of Spain's beard, having an empire, and in my own personal case 'coming over here taking our jobs why don't you fuck off back where you came from'.

All of these are things worth apologising for and so have made admitting to being English something to be muttered sheepishly - in the same sort of tone one might use when saying 'actually my hobby is molesting pigeons'. I can only think that those people who are, 'according to recent polls', throwing out their chests proudly and claiming the nationality in ringing tones are either lacking in historical knowledge or sensitivity. I don't think I'll follow the trend.

Comments

[metallumai.livejournal.com]

Well, you could safely claim "Welsh" if you wanted to, I suppose, but honestly, what country doesn't have things to apologise for? It's not so much a proud statement as a biting-the-bullet kind of statement. Plus, most of the things you mention are only remembered by people who read history, and there are precious few of us left. It's a sort of "what have you done for me lately" mentality: people might just remember the Beatles, or Pierce Broznan, or Hugh Laurie.

Try out the phrase "I'm American" and console yourself! :D

[gonzothegreat.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't be so concerned about it if I were you. For one thing, it puts you on an equal footing with the rest of the English-speaking-Northern-Hemisphere. A British Columbian doesn't want to be associated with a Newfi and the Quebeois don't want to be associated with anyone. Likewise south of the Friendship Border too... NObody wants to be associated with Texas (save Texans who think the US joined THEM).

[irishkate.livejournal.com]

::runs in from the left side:: "Pierce was/is Irish..." ::sniggers, and runs out the right::

[irishkate.livejournal.com]

I think, in this day and age, people should feel ok about calling themselves English. The people who would taunt them will do so whether they call themselves english or british. So if you feel English, use it. If you don't, then don't.
I personally feel peckish.....

[erised1810.livejournal.com]

shoudl one real expres guilt for stuff done by peope who lived 400-100 years awww. ago?
i felt weird when someone askedm e how oftne i'd been to england. iwas liek' four times. oh and once to ireland."

[anghara13.livejournal.com]

On the flip side of that coin, how come it's fine to have a passport that describes your nationality as Scottish, Irish or Welsh, but the fourth nation of the United Kingdom have to be British? Why can't I describe myself as English?

How come we have Scottish, Irish and Welsh MP's voting on legislation that only affects the English, and yet, they have their own devolved organisations which can make their own laws on which English MP's are not allowed to vote?

There is an argument yes, that the English history is a long and bloody one, also embarrasing, but by the same token, if every other nation of the UK is reclaiming their right to be considered separately, why can't we? I'm sure that in the various centuries gone by there would be people who committed atrocities from almost every nation on this planet. Lets not do this one rule for one nation and one rule for another.... way too divisive in the long run. And really, do we want another civil war?

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Sort of Welsh by adoption. I was born in London though.

Yeah I reckon we should be forgiven for, say, all those entries at the Eurovision song contest on account of Blackadder.

[essayel.livejournal.com]

*giggles* I couldn't possibly comment on this. BAsically we're a tribal species.

the real problem starts when someone upgrades from family units to nations and invents 'patriotism'. Because with more people available to do the grafting then you have spare folk and can invent these things called 'armies'.

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Peckish is a good thing to be. And yeah, Pierce is deliciously Irish isn't he! Mind you Dan Craig makes a good Bond too.

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Some people love grudges. History, and especially the muckier bits, shouldn't be forgotten in the hope we won't be daft enough to do it again, but I don't think mulling over it should be a way of spoiling your day.

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Hee, we have one. Its called the Five Nations and it's played fifteen a side. Much better than the real thing.

[gonzothegreat.livejournal.com]

Does this mean I can invade Texas on national security grounds?! (mood brightens)

[anghara13.livejournal.com]

*Laughs* Think you meant the Six Nations hun, and although we might once have controlled France, not sure we ever had any control over Italy....

Then again... it's close enough to a civil war I guess, what with that and the different football sides.

[erised1810.livejournal.com]

I gues if some spanjard came up to me and apologized frothe woel phillip-mess of the 17th century i'd jsut laugh.
we have this stuff with indonesia going on though. i'll ring abel lif i hear abouthe next obscure faction of veterans who hasnt'received thier medal yet. *that one is mixed in far too many ways* I don't lie kthe way some history texts skim over the lesser bits and glorify the good work. i shoudl ask some experts for whatto read in order to at least get the bigger parto fthe truth.

[irishkate.livejournal.com]

Actually I loved the movie, thought it was a good version of the book (the chase scene at the start was gratuitous and out of place but stunning) and a good bond movie. But I don't like Dan Craig. I just don't. He did a sterling job and I thought his performance was admirable, possibly the best (though pierce and sean will always be my favourite bonds) but I just don't like him.

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Why not? But I'd take plenty of friends if I were you.

[essayel.livejournal.com]

Last time I took any notice of it it was the 4 Nations. I'm further behind the times than I thought [or care].

[legionseagle.livejournal.com]

Have you ever niticed how many great English atrocities actually featured at least one Scot as the hand-on part of the oppressing/betraying/massacring?